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What is Cap and Trade?

Cap and trade programs encourage investment in green energy sources to reduce pollution because factories can then sell excess credits.
Cap and trade limits the amount of greenhouse gasses a factory is legally permitted to release.
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A cap and trade system is a method for managing pollution, with the end goal of reducing the overall pollution in a nation, region, or industry. Many proponents of pollution control support the concept of such systems, arguing that they are extremely effective, and that they make sense economically as well. It is only one option among many for reducing the emission of pollutants, most notably carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that has attracted a great deal of attention due to its environmental impacts.

Under a cap and trade system, a government authority first sets a cap, deciding how much pollution in total will be allowed. Next, companies are issued credits, essentially licenses to pollute, based on how large they are, what industries they work in, and so forth. If a company comes in below its cap, it has extra credits that it may trade with other companies.

For companies that come in below their caps, this system is great, because they can sell their extra credits, profiting while reducing their pollution. For companies that cannot get their pollution under control, the system penalizes them for their excess pollution while still bringing overall pollution rates down. In a sense, the need to purchase credits acts as a fine, encouraging companies to reduce their emissions.

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By creating a cap, nations make it clear that they want to reduce overall emissions, rather than just fining companies for excessive emissions or trying to force all companies to reduce their emissions by a set percentage. Cap and trade systems allow for flexibility, which usually benefits the market. Some people view the concept as preferable to a taxation or fining system, because it is easier to administer and it results in a pollution reduction. These systems are most commonly used for carbon emissions, leading people to refer to it as “carbon trading,” and there is a potential for a global carbon trading market, in which more efficient nations could trade credits with other countries.

A cap and trade system still requires regulation. Government agencies must monitor emissions from companies to ensure that they are reporting them truthfully, for example, and companies can still be fined for releasing harmful pollutants into the atmosphere, water, or soil. Cap and trade systems also benefit from investment in alternative energy on the part of the government, providing additional incentive to convert to more energy efficient and less polluting ways of generating energy to run companies, from paper mills to computer manufacturers.

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anon924549
Post 163

Under cap and trade, the government redistributes money from a polluter to a lesser polluter or some government program that will inevitably spend the money. So, the money is not spent by the polluter, but is nonetheless spent. What does it buy? Construction, manufactured goods, agricultural production.

Yes, it buys stuff that is made, transported and stored using energy! The net reduction of energy consumption (i.e. carbon emissions) is zero. Cap and trade is a scam to redistribute wealth and turn people like Al Gore into billionaires through the carbon exchange that they so conveniently formed before they made the big push to force this scam on the American people.

anon251398
Post 162

All this carbon tax is government crap. What needs to be done and what will have an immediate effect is to decrease Earth's population. If you half the population, the emissions will be halved. China, India, and the Arab countries all have huge populations which are increasing exponentially. If each family just had only one child for 200 years, the population will go down to maybe 2 billion. Emissions will decrease automatically, and not just that but other negative impacts on nature as well, e.g. overfishing, deforestation, depletion of all natural resources.

With fewer people, the living standard will increase in direct proportion. Anybody familiar with leaving in big cities? Liking the traffic situation? Control of population seems to be a political taboo but it is the only way humanity can survive and thrive on Earth.

anon165414
Post 160

cap and trade is the best option because using a cap won't hurt the company. it will encourage it to do good by the earth while carbon tax won't stop pollution, just make us pay for it.

anon147109
Post 159

How is this not a form of socialism? Company A is a large company that produces 100 million cars per year. Company B is a foreign company that produces 10 million cars per year.

Company A uses 10 carbon credits and company B uses only four carbon credits. The government then proposes a cap of eight carbon credits across the board. Even though company A produces 10 times the number of cars as company B, A is forced to buy the credits or stop producing so many cars. Luckily, B has credits for sale. Company A decides to buy B's credits, thus spending part of their earnings/profit with company B (distributing out the wealth) There is no less carbon dioxide being emitted. How does this help the environment?

This country is going down a slippery slope from a once constitutional republic, to a democracy, and now we are looking at socialism thanks to progressives and people like Barack Obama and Al Gore.

Climate change/global warming is a hoax created by the progressives in order to secretly push their socialistic agendas onto the American people. People, the government has gotten to big for its own good. The founding fathers must be rolling over in their graves right about now!

anon143516
Post 158

RE: hoax. If you put yourself in an air tight garage, the result would be the same. You would suffocate. You produce carbon dioxide. So, eventually, even if you were alone in an airtight garage, you would die from the lack of oxygen. That has nothing to do with global warming. You would not die of overheating in that garage.

Now put me in an an airtight area with that same modern car running unleaded fuel and a medium sized tree and you can run that car till the tank runs dry and I will be fine. One good sized tree can convert the entire CO2 production of a car back into oxygen with ease.

No, I don't get it. What does renewable have to do with cost? Fossil fuels are currently plentiful and require little effort to obtain. That is why they are cheap. When they are depleted, they will become expensive. Most "renewable" fuels are expensive to harness relative to fossil fuels. That is not to say we don't need to move in that direction, that just means your comment makes no sense. Again, fossil fuels are in plentiful supply at this time. In fact, OPEC regulates production to keep prices high. Unfortunately, you missed other components in you view of prices: the price of labor and the price of production. Solar, geothermal and other alternate sources are machinery-intensive to produce. Machinery costs money. This machinery is also labor intensive to produce and maintain. So while there is plenty of sunlight, the process of gathering it is very expensive. In other words, Gore is rich enough to pay the penalty for producing carbon. Gore also holds huge interests in green technology companies so it behooves him to buy his own product. His father owned large tobacco farms for many years - that is how they got where they are. So that means tobacco is a good product? I have a scientific background. However, I am not a meteorologist or a climatologist. I am not qualified to analyze the climate change data. However, I am qualified to comment on the scientific process, and in the case of climate change, it has been poor at best.

Climate change believers have used unsound science, have had virtually no legitimate peer review in the process, detractors of the theory have repeatedly had their careers and even their lives threatened, and every climate change model produced in the last 15 years has failed. That is a pretty bad way to convince me. Furthermore, the empirical observations don't seem to support the CO2 to climate change connection.

Gore points out that increases in ambient CO2 have correlated to increases in world temperature. But we have to remember that correlation does not mean cause. Where there is smoke there is fire. So does that mean smoke causes fire? Of course not. But fire still correlates to smoke.

It could well be that increases in temperature also favored an increase in life. (There is life at the North Pole, but there is a lot more at the equator.) Thus, as the world warmed, life increased, and thus ambient CO2 increased with it. That is why the oceans produce such massive amounts of CO2. In reality the ocean itself does not produce CO2, but the life in the oceans produce it.

And while the point is strictly anecdotal, ask Florida citrus farmers about global warming. They have seen the citrus line (the northern most line where it is profitable to grow citrus) moved south 80 miles in the last 40 years.

While colder winters in Florida don't translate to a warmer world, this is the same kind of anecdotal evidence supplied by climate change believers. Such and such glacier is melting, such and such city had its warmest summer. Yet virtually every major model supplied by these people have failed to realize the warming trends predicted.

So if global warming is a reality, the best can be said is that these people do not understand its cause or mechanism. The worst that can be said is that the Climate Change Movement is a ruse to achieve political and economic goals. Either way, while I am not willing to make a statement of fact based on my scientific background, there is nothing to convince me to buy into this.

The submission I quoted above is typical of the hysterical logic that has propagated this movement.

Finally, remember this: Our atmosphere is made up of nitrogen- about 78 percent (about 3 parts in 4), oxygen- 21 percent (about one part in 5), argon- less than 1 percent (less than one part in 100). Today, how much is CO2? About 0.03 percent! That is less than one part in 3300.

I am just not convinced, and until I am, I don't think we should rush ahead with policy that will change industry and economy and make the suffering of the poor even worse than it is today.

Russ622
Post 157

The simple fact of cap and trade is that it is a thinly veiled tax increase. The government fines the company, we get the bill through price increases (greater than the fines) and the Government spends this money on new ways to buy votes. I should also mention the government has added too much salt!

anon136197
Post 156

No one sees the problem with this. You basically made pollution a commodity. The ability to reduce fines through the government and still be able to pollute the amount you deem necessary.

Cap and Trade is not good for the economy or the environment if you can basically trade credits to pollute the amount you need to keep doing business. Even if you exceed the credits, it is cheaper than the government finds and becomes an advantage for the companies polluting and the companies staying below their quota.

And while carbon dioxide is part of the greenhouse gases, its just one part, that's just the one we can identify the best way for reductions.

anon136089
Post 155

The problem with Cap and Trade is that companies that pollute need to buy credits. They pass on the cost to the consumers (us). Then they can afford to buy more credits and continue to pollute. Is it me or is the logic flawed here and we the consumers again get hosed?

anon130709
Post 154

How do they decide which companies cap and trade applies to? I have a two-person company. I live in a house and drive a car. Do I have to trade with someone? What countries can I trade with? I suppose there are some lower limits like annual tons of CO2. I certainly hope so.

anon130259
Post 153

Cap and trade, like many other systems, is a good idea in theory. However, being an engineer and seeing new procesess form in the lab, I can tell you that a system that size will falter when implemented in the real world.

Controlled test situations are one thing, but out in the real world where anything and everything can and will happen is totally different. Look at our social security system as a prime example.

In the beginning it was a good idea. Now it is flawed so badly that it cannot be fixed.

This is what happens when a good idea "in theory" is put into motion and policed by humans that have their own agendas in mind and not what is best for the good of the people.

rancor
Post 152

The only people who are going to benefit from this cap and trade bill is the government. The government tells the companies how much pollution they let out and if they go over their limit they will get fined and who is this going to hurt? You got it the consumer. - anon81155 made a statement saying cap and trade will create jobs: government jobs.

anon124068
Post 151

The oceans expel more carbon dioxide than the total of everything that man does. How are we going to tax the oceans? By the way, North America was covered by glaciers at one point. But things warmed up and they aren't there anymore. Which one of you thinks that the earth's climate is constant?

anon123779
Post 150

I do not know why the United States cannot look at other European countries who use nuclear energy to power their societies, and see what they can use from foreign examples that may work and improve on these examples.

anon123517
Post 148

Cap and Trade makes perfect sense. Reduce pollution, increase efficiently, reduce dependence on foreign energy sources, create new industry in the new industrial revolution translation more jobs.

Problem with a carbon tax is that government world over spend taxes wastefully with Cap and Trade the problem is dealt with at the source. It will take some ironing out in terms of the quotas allocated to the polluters in question, but implemented correctly the planet as a whole benefits.

To imagine China and India both massively populated and increasing wealthy (good thing)powering their respective economies on oil and coal is horrific from an environmental perspective. Oil and coal are the past we need to be progressive not regressive, times are changing move or get left behind.

For all those who feel that it's a hoax I would challenge them not on scientific facts as I'm not a scientist, but on something more real to me at least, would you be willing to sit in your garage and close the door and run the engine for a minimum of 12 hours (unleaded if you like).

We can't open a door to let the greenhouse gases escape, we've got to collectively change the power source. As for my electricity bill "rocketing" be aware that renewable energy is renewable get it? Supply and demand determine market prices on the most fundamental level, so to have a source of electricity that's infinite means a low price per unit of electricity.

As for Gore, he brought credits to offset his footprint, I would like someone who considers this "carbon emitting crap" to consider what a carbon credit actually is and how one is created.

anon122155
Post 147

I think we all vote with our dollars. It doesn't matter as much who holds a political office when the people speak loud and clear. It's the money in this country, and probably all others who really are the deciding factor of what transpires.

If you don't like pollution, don't buy something that requires pollution to manufacture it. The first thing people usually say is that they couldn't support their family if they always did that. Maybe just start with one item you buy. Research and find a green replacement. It may be more expensive, it may not.

We have started with food. Buying Organic. More expensive, but prices are coming down as more people choose organics. We don't have to go back to the stone age but we can reward green companies and do our part to help. After all, its all made for you and me.

anon120889
Post 146

It's the Dems' fault. No, the GOP is at fault.

The Tea party is full of -- who knows what?

I've got news for you: We the people are at fault! The voters!

When are we as Americans going to wake up and realize as long as we allow a two-party system to survive, nothing will ever get done? It is constant, stale and infuriating!

People here care enough to inform themselves but all we do is bicker back and forth about what makes the other party wrong. The other issue is that a large majority of Americans can't think past "Oh I vote for whoever's name ends in a "R" (or "D") because that is all they see on TV. "I don't have to listen to what he/she says because I saw that "R" so I am not voting for that one."

Who is John Galt, you ask? What about Guy Montag?

People need to wake up and think for themselves! Stop being led around by the media and the politicians.

Research your candidates. Know what you want and what they stand for. And then get real radical and form an opinion that is your own!

Alas, I'm speaking, in part, to people who will probably never read this.

anon120479
Post 145

It seems that Americans don't get enough science education and perhaps too much conservative propaganda or home schooled religious fundamentalism (i.e. terrorism). Think for a moment: if you're objecting to something that will improve the environment, what that means is it is increasing your chances of surviving. If you don't support it, you're basically suicidal.

anon120363
Post 144

For the first comment above, global warming is real but it is true that some areas will get colder while some get warmer. You are not a scientist so be careful what you say when you don't understand the whole issue.

anon119833
Post 143

People can talk about global warming all they want to. If it is so prevalent today, and the world is getting hotter, I would like to know why where I live, we had the worst winter last year that we have had in a few. Go figure.

would like for Al Gore to have come to my house and drove me to work and along the way we could have chatted about the global warming issue. And if the world is getting hotter why the heck was there 2 feet of snow on the ground?

anon118263
Post 142

So where does the tax on water emissions fit into cap and trade? Just wondering since H2O vapor is more of a greenhouse gas then CO2!

anon117683
Post 141

Have any of the people commenting here who are outraged at Obama over his administration's contributions to emission's trading ever bothered looking up a little thing called the Clean Air Act? It has been around since 1963, just in case you were thinking this is a new idea.

There is also the Acid Rain Program which stemmed from the 1990 revision of that act. Before further condemning yourselves to fear that the world as you know it is ending now that Obama is in office, you might do a little research into our past.

anon117678
Post 140

I am not sure if this has been mentioned on here (I couldn't read any more of this hateful, anti-Obama rhetoric) but cap and trade is hardly an Obama thing. It has been around for a while, McCain even pushed it a few years back but didn't start criticizing it until more recently.

But my god, people, this has been something that has been accepted since we started making strides to reduce green house gas emissions back in the 80s, in our attempt to deal with the problems from acid rain (which yes, btw actually existed when I was younger) and SO2 production. Emissions trading (i.e. can and trade) is not an Obama ploy to screw with our economy or your taxes. Unfortunately, it seems everything that occurred before the days of fast paced information access and 24 hour news and opinion shows has been lost in our minds.

anon109697
Post 136

I live in a solar home simply because 'grid' living is not an option. I am in an extremely remote part of Texas. Solar energy is a farce so anyone who suggests that is the 'way of the future' has clearly never tried it.

I have large door sized solar panels on my property and acid leaking used up batteries on my property and half the time the whole systems doesn't work, so I must have a back up generator when I actually need power. Since I'm not an 'artist or poet or songwriter" and I actually have to work on my computer all day, that takes power. Real power.

Anything the government touches (excluding the military) turns to crap. So I say not "Who is John Galt?" but "Where is John Galt?"

anon107641
Post 134

Cap and trade is a scheme of a few world politicians for the redistribution of wealth world wide. Under the cap and trade scheme, which is based on flawed science, only a few politicians in the world will be wealthy and will have a world government and power.

anon107638
Post 133

anon53669 is the only one that's posted on here who "gets it"! Who is John Galt? (post #71)

anon106720
Post 132

It is painfully evident that most, but not all, of the people here have not read the Kerry-Lieberman Bill. It is a truly disgusting piece of legislation.

If you think that giving the IRS more and intrusive powers and a newly implemented enforcement arm of "Green Goon Squads" is a good idea, please keep voting for the career politicians. How about some real change? Send them all home. Establish term limits and eliminate the appointed bureaucracy.

Require that all campaign contributions be reported, stop borrowing from the Social Security trust, and for the sake of all that is holy, please stop raising taxes. Between federal, state, local, property, sales and personal property taxes, I pay 47 percent of my income to plundering government agencies.

I cannot take it anymore. I cannot pay my medical bills, afford the insurance (where is all of the savings I was told to expect? 18 percent increase last year, same increase this year! What?) and at the rate things are going, I will not be able to afford to retire -- ever.

anon102956
Post 131

To anon 102665: Bend over and kiss the money in your wallet goodbye.

anon102665
Post 130

Where were you people opposing this issue when the "Patriot Act" was being discussed?

The "Cap and Trade" bill will help with pollution, and I don't think it's going to take away any of our freedoms, because nothing could have taken away our freedoms more that the "Patriot Act".

The "Cap and Trade" bill will not raise individual taxes. It will fine the companies that can't get their pollution under control. If they pass on the expense or want to move to another country, then people can choose not to use their products.

The coal companies need to clean their act up anyway. Maybe solar and wind energy will grow as a result.

Using a GOP phrase, "the public needs to learn to make hard choices", the argument they are using on the stimulus money that is to be sent to the states to help keep teachers, fireman, and policeman working.

Talk about flip-flopping and reasoning that is all over the place. The GOP governs with one thing on their minds: "We'll have the opposite of whatever the Democrats are having." Your scare tactics are childish at best.

anon100546
Post 129

As these companies buy credits their expenses will go up regardless of how much they can sell off. Typically companies won't just take a loss on profits because of new regulations. They simply add up all of their expenses and tack on 5 percent for profit, passing the bill onto the consumer.

Keep in mind that 5 percent on more expenses is more profit.

I guess competition should encourage companies to deliver a product for less. But I live in a small town and so does much of america. There is only one place that I buy my energy from. Is there not a monopoly effect on energy provided to the consumer for much of america? If I am right, then we won't see a reduction in pollution -- just more expense to the energy company that in turn, gets passed to the consumer.

The question I guess I don't understand is who regulates rates for the consumer. Is there a government agency that does this?

Unless the energy companies rates are regulated I view cap and trade as something that will just be an expense that is passed to the consumer costing me more money.

Please advise me.

anon100052
Post 128

Anon 92010: You need help. So there is no global warming? So, man has had no affect on the world so far as pollution? So, even though the entire world believes that global warming is real you think Al Gore and a few of his buddies are making this up for profit?

I suppose the Republicans believe that the Gulf War was justified? I suppose Mr Cheney and his cronies making billions from that conflict was reasonable. You, my friend, have been brainwashed by the machine.

Get real! Face the facts and do whatever you can to stop emissions. Go solar. It will save some CO2 and make you independent from the power companies. Then you can donate enough more to charity!

anon99866
Post 127

The government just wants more control over companies. They really do want their hands in your pockets. Carbon dioxide isn't bad for us. Plants use carbon dioxide for photosynthesis, to make oxygen, you know the stuff we breathe? Well, Cap and Trade will bankrupt the coal industry, as anon21404 explains. He's right. The government already controls 70 percent of the economy, and this will only make it worse.

anon97186
Post 126

Well, this definitely put it into perspective as I had no clue what everybody was talking about. So I understand why people are for/against cap and trade. But reducing pollution either way -- wouldn't that be a good thing?

anon92010
Post 125

Global warming is real. Man-made global warming is not. When Mt St. Helens erupted it released more pollution than mankind has ever produced.

In the USA, the amount of pollution released in the industrial age was somewhere between 2,000,000 and 270,000,000 times the pollution that we release today. In 1975 the Time magazine front cover headline was "Global Cooling will destroy mankind by the year 2050." The author is one of the many who now says man-made global warming is destroying the earth! Al Gore quotes him 22 times in his book!

You people have relied on the media for your information. Take an afternoon and do just a little historical research. There has never been any, none, zero proof that mankind has had any effect on the earth's temperature.

The earth's temperature cycles for many reasons none can be attributed to mankind. Al Gore knows this. He is a man who has personally profited just under one billion dollars by claiming we can have an affect on the earth's temps.

This billionaire, according to his tax returns, donated $7,381.00 to charities last year including church tithes.

I made $88,611.00 last year and donated $21,231.00 to charities and my church. Al Gore is a low life piece of work snake oil salesman and this world is just stupid enough to buy into all this bull!

anon91853
Post 124

thank you wise geek for explaining cap and trade. i now understand the system.

anon91851
Post 123

I came to this site to educate myself on cap and trade, but what i found in the articles i just read were (with a few exceptions) a bunch of people spewing unsupported facts. anon67486 thank you for your input,although i think you wasted your time with this bunch.

anon91550
Post 122

Go ahead. You start laying the track.

anon91380
Post 121

I can remember back in the days of 23 cents per gallon gasoline, and trolley cars moving people from point A to point B, then somebody (GMC)had the great idea to replace the trolley with buses, which they just happened to manufacture. After that, gas kept going up and so did the pollution. Maybe it's time to go back to trolleys again!

Russ622
Post 120

Cap And Trade (CAT) Does anyone suppose this is an actual fix to global warming? Who has the carbon credits? Who sells them? What do they do with the money? Are you taxed when you buy them? If there aren't enough who makes more? The government comes up with new ways to get their hands into you pockets all the time. Wait till they pass the value added tax. Does anyone know how another tax will add value to what I buy?

Why is it they ask the people who plan and budget their money to supply the government who won't?

anon90719
Post 119

hey 116 we get plastic from oil. we need oil for more than gas.

anon90570
Post 118

It looks like this is now the second biggest oil spill in the history of mankind! It will soon reach number one if not stopped. At least BP has found a good way to get rid of their toxic waste. Call it dispersant and dump it in the Gulf of Mexico. I don’t think it will be safe to touch water in the Gulf of Mexico for the rest of the decade. They may as well close it down.

anon90569
Post 117

BP will not pay for all this! They will disperse the vast wealth among the oil tycoons and then declare bankruptcy. Ha Ha they are smarter than everyone else.

More mega yachts!

Oil tycoons always lie and they will do anything for more money and power. They don’t care how much damage and death they cause. That explains why BP lies all the time. Oil tycoons have owned our government for a long time. The government’s main purpose is to make money for Oil tycoons.

anon90391
Post 116

The Gulf oil leak is a crisis! We need change! How do we do things to stop the oil rigs from exploding. Cap and trade will stop us from drilling oils from the ocean because we won't need oil any more.

anon90350
Post 115

After reading all of these posts, I am as confused as ever.

All I want to know is how much this is going to cost the average family in increased fuel bills?

I hear a lot of doom and gloom and no true answers.

anon90268
Post 114

Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. What would the global warming zealots like us to exhale? Cap and Trade is just another bad idea of a politically popular idea coupled with flawed science.

anon89693
Post 113

The idea of Cap and Trade was started back in the 80's and the law came into being in 1990 (Clean Air Act). Why? Acid rain and sulfur dioxide. As a result of the Act there was a reduction in Acid rain of at least 50 percent. The reason it works is that there was a cap.

Initially, it started trading at $250 per ton. But that is not the problem here. The problem is not Cap and Trade. Cap and Trade is a method of dealing with a certain problem, but I cannot see how it can be applied.

Here are some examples. These are all factual. By retrofitting old buildings one would reduce greenhouse gases and create jobs. By how much? More than any type of cap and trade. More jobs than you would create through coal powered plants or through solar powered, etc. (I think that for 1 billion of retrofits there are 7,000 jobs created.) By simply changing the traffic lights in each city and changing rooftops in each city there would be enough savings in greenhouse gases to be more than all transportation (which represents 10 percent of greenhouse emissions).

Tropical deforestation represents 15 percent of the total carbon. How can cap and trade help us out with that?

There is a logical fallacy called a non-sequitur. When the basis of your argument has nothing to do with your conclusion, that is a non-sequitur and that is what this cap and trade is. We are being sold a bunch of non-sequiturs.

Let us start with what we know and let us create jobs for America. Start with fixing our buildings. Start with electric and hybrid cars but no taxes on them. Build refueling stations for them. Start with cleaning up the Gulf of Mexico and ensuring that such an oil spill never happens again. Start with making a level playing field but making sure that the tropical rain forest is not being cut down. Get China to stop spewing garbage. India as well.

anon85426
Post 112

Cap and trade? Should be called Cap and charade! Just another government scam. We have a coal facility that produces electricity that burns very clean. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Just like global warming. We're enjoying thirty two degree nights in May. Burned more firewood this year than the last two. We can thank Al Gore for saving us water also.

The new toilets with smaller capacity only take two or three flushes to do what we did with one. Do the math. Less efficient and uses more water. I guess Al doesn't mind as he just bought another little house for about eight million dollars. As they say, follow the money.

The Freddy and Fannie fiasco. Who benefited from this? Not the people who bought a house that they could not afford. Some used a credit card to make a down payment. Interest upon interest! Do the math. Doomed for failure!

Bottom line: too much government and deceit gets you this. Time to wake up, go to the voting booth and remove the people who got us here and continue on the same path. Let 2010 and 2012 start anew and bring back America as we once knew!

anon81807
Post 111

With Climategate we have already proved that man made climate change is a farce. Any reference to reducing greenhouse gases for the means to the ends should be dismissed. So how can we promote a program that would not reduce pollution just shifts the polluters' amount. This is totally a shell game designed to enrich the designers of this program. Just follow the money.

anon81155
Post 110

It would seem that in recent years, especially the last two or so, everything is driving towards massive federal expansion.

Cap and Trade is going to create more jobs because somebody has to monitor the companies, keep track of who has how many credits. Essentially, bean counters.

Let's take a look at the health care bill. We are talking about expanding the IRS by 30,000 jobs, and not one new doctor. How is this affecting my health?

Now they want to reform Wall Street. I'm sure they will come up with some brilliant plan to create a whole bunch of new federal jobs, levy more taxes to pay for those, that will ultimately come out of the pockets of the lowest man on the totem pole.

The big buzz they love though is "credits" and not "refunds". Tax credits only matter for when you pay in. They raise taxes, then give certain people credits. That's great. What if you are poor, or didn't make much money? That credit does nothing to put food on your table. They can hand out all the credits they like because if you didn't pay into the federal taxes, you get nothing. So, in reality, all the credits offered end up not being worth anything.

anon80506
Post 109

Cap and Trade is a scam, and has nothing to do with protecting the environment. In fact, all it does is encouraging the big polluter to pollute further - all they'll have to do is buy some "credits" or "the right to pollute". So you, the consumer, will struggle to find green ways of living, so that "they" can benefit from that and go ahead doing what they have done all along.

Not to mention the so-called "green taxes" which will fall upon the regular citizen.

Sad world are we living in.

Russ622
Post 108

To anon 79078: Hmmm. It seems you are more into bad translations of old Japanese video games, than serious cap and trade issues. I can do both.

anon79078
Post 107

"All your cap and trade are belong to us!"

Russ622
Post 106

To Anon77819: Cap and trade will cost a fortune, drive up prices of everything, and make a bunch of carbon speculators rich.

You wonder what those of us who doubt, have to gain? You should be asking where all this cap and trade money will be going. If I have to pay a dollar a gallon more for gas, who gets it? Or, who gets the extra money we will have to pay for everything?

I'll tell you this: the extra money I don't have to pay for everything will allow me to purchase other things I need. This will help the economy. If you think the few jobs created by hiring more IRS agents and other government positions will help our economy, and that cap and trade is the GW cure-all, then you better start paying attention to what's happening in this country.

anon77819
Post 105

I think the majority of these posts are from ill informed people on both sides.

I also think that we all need to get out of our comfort zones and get our information from sources that don't massage our personal ideology.

Many on the right only get their information from sources that are biased on the right and might misrepresent the issues, and the same goes for those on the left.

I suggest we all spend a little time looking elsewhere for our information, and instead of mocking and ridiculing those of differing opinions, we should try to understand why they think that way, and ask ourselves what the facts are (not the convenient talking points).

We also need to ask ourselves what makes a newscaster, talk show host or radio personality offer a particular opinion.

In this case, who has the most to gain by convincing us that pollution is not destroying our planet?

What do we have to lose by protecting it, and what if those of us who deny the impact on our environment are wrong?

anon77160
Post 104

You all are misinformed. First of all, those of you complaining about pollution (I will only listen to those who are Amish or you are a hypocrite and get the advantages of the american revolution). Second, God is in control and if you believe in God, then the bible warns us of earthquakes, floods, etc. If you're not a Christian, then look back in history and explain the ice age/the worse earthquakes and floods even prior to America being founded? Got any explanations for this when there was no company pollution. Stop blaming, being ignorant to facts on history, and what the Bible says. Our politicians (Gore especially) are making money off your ignorance.

anon76933
Post 103

Hey post 102: It's not normal to have a size 14 waist in America, either. And since when have we been pointing the finger at China? Other than when we are pointing at the people who buy our T-bills.

We use what we need. We don't take things, we buy them. We consume what we can afford (for the most part) and we eat until we're full (and we grow all the food ourselves).

Define fair share. What have we used so much of that there is just none of it left for anyone?

Yes, Americans are greedy. But we're not the only ones. I mean, if it wasn't for greed, why would you even have a job? Because you don't want things? Or are you one of those types who does nothing and just asks for government handouts?

Carbon emissions are an externality of heavy industry. By granting the right to sell carbon as property, a market is created. And in this market you're going to have players who want to cut a profit.

There are financial incentives for entities in the carbon market who can innovate ways to reduce emissions in a cost effective manner. These firms will win in the long run, as firms that pollute rampantly will incur such high added costs that they will cease to operate.

Of course there will be entities that take advantage of faults in the system, but that happens in every system, everywhere. It's just how capitalism works.

Sure, the prices of things will probably go up, that's something that happens when you impose restrictions like this. Now I'm no hardcore environmentalist, but wouldn't you rather pay a little bit more for stuff, and buy a little bit less of it, rather than risk damaging the planet to a point beyond repair?

So, let's here a better idea on how to mitigate carbon emissions. Do nothing? Say it's not allowed at all? Learn to compromise people.

anon75902
Post 102

Unfortunately I am stuck with research on the effectiveness of the 'cap and trade/emissions trading policies', I looked at the posts merely for public opinion.

To be honest, I agree with some of you. It just won't work.

Why? Because Americans are greedy.

You use more than you need, you take more than you need, you consume more that you need, and by gosh you eat more than you need! You take more than your fair share in everything other than anything that is rational.

In my country, it isn't normal to be a size 14.

Oh, and stop pointing the fingers at china, india or developing countries. Because you are the problems. You have been the naughty fat kid that ate it all, and you didn't leave anything for the rest of us.

anon74972
Post 101

Fine-let the coastal cities flood. Then we can all move to the interior of the country and give the coastline a rest.

anon74430
Post 99

Cap and trade is just another name for commodities trading for the speculators of Wall St. and others. The commodity market is already up and running for the contracts to be purchased and sold for Cap and Trade. If you think swaps and derivatives were a bummer, wait for the trading contracts on our air!

anon72445
Post 98

Will we ever stop being so gullible? There are more schemes (cap and trade) on earth to take our money than stars in the heaven.

Case in point: Gore made millions on his Inconvenient book. That's OK you say but he also had his finger in the pie for H1N1. Rather suspicious don't you think? Big money for the very few again.

The trick has always been to scare the public and be in a position to profit.

gotime4
Post 97

anon67486 has no support. for your information, carbon emission does not cause earthquakes. There is no evidence, and frankly it can't be proved either, that that is the case. Don't just assume and hold everyone responsible for your assumption that has no support behind it.

anon72010
Post 95

Even if global warming didn't exist why wouldn't you want to protect our only earth from pollution? I do not understand the laziness of republicans. Care now, not when it's too late.

Russ622
Post 94

Where on earth did you come up with the idea that we pollute more than India or China? I not sure how long you have lived but it sure wasn't 10,000 years. So how do you know it is getting warmer faster? And, I guess you didn't know that the GWs fudged facts to fill in where none were available.

Besides anon67486, as I look around, the only thing in front of my face is snow.

anon67486
Post 93

okay, now I've read a few more. Instead of relying on this article for your sole knowledge base, maybe try expanding your minds and take a look at the world around you.

Have you noticed the amount of random catastrophes that have been happening in the past few years? Massive floods, New Orleans, Haiti. The list is becoming endless.

Global warming is not just the warming of temperatures, it's an alteration of the balance. El nino is warming up and there is scientific evidence that coastal cities will flood, within our lifetime!

The evidence of how much melting is occurring in the Arctic/Antarctic regions. While the warming may be a cycle, we are making it come faster, and at the same time we're destroying everything around us. Check out the mass number of extinctions that occur every day.

Wake up people, how can you be so closed minded and ignore what is right in front of your face. If you need an easy source to understand the issue, pick up a national geographic. And while yes other countries have a slightly higher output of pollution than the United States, look at your population numbers!

China, India, middle-eastern countries, Africa, they all have at least twice the people and yet the Americans are still able to match their pollution emissions. I don't know about, but that is sick! Please do your research, this is happening.

anon67472
Post 92

I can't say that I have read all of these comments, however of the 6/7 I did read, you all criticise the environment. Why? Especially since the United States is one of the biggest polluters in the world with relatively few people in respect to other countries such as India and China.

No this system is not perfect, but at least it's a step to minimize our footprint on Earth. I can understand how people are struggling because of the economy, but to say that you think Obama should be focusing his time on this and only this is ludicrous. The economy will get better, it always does. The Earth, it won't get better.

anon67342
Post 91

I read as much as I could stomach. Where is the intelligence of the American people? Where is the factual information that might really help weigh the choices before us?

Why are so many people so sure that what they post here is truth? Are there any open minded people out there? When did "scare tactics" become an acceptable way to communicate ideas or get anything done? Anybody?

trela
Post 90

Obama's call for a televised bipartisan get- together to discuss health care reform is a farce. He will make some grand prepared speech, and when the GOP doesn't totally fall all over itself agreeing with him, he will use that as an excuse to have the house pass the senate bill and cram it down our throats.

They will then use the senate to vote most of the house portions separately. We will end up with most of the house version, which no one wants. You heard it here.

anon66689
Post 89

Leave it to the democrats to shoot themselves in the foot! Why do they put this issue near the top of their agenda when there are so many immediate concerns 90 percent of us have elsewhere. Some of us will die more quickly by not having a job to pay health care costs than we will from carbon pollution.

I wish the dems would smarten up!

anon66069
Post 87

How about before the government tries to save the world the government fixes itself first. Talk to some people overseas and they will tell you the same thing. The big bad us wants to tell everyone else how to do things and they have their own house a big fat mess!

anon65687
Post 86

Obama is the right man to save our world. Republicans are all confused and dazed.

anon65408
Post 85

Even if there was such a thing as global warming (id like anybody to prove it, because I have seen where it has been proved wrong in many ways more than one)I would much rather die from pollution than from government control. All thanks to failed economy crippled by cap and trade and made up theories from unknown "experts." Give me liberty or give me death.

barb9joe
Post 84

Obama, What is your Cap and Trade?

To put a cap in to American butts, then trade it off to other countries.

anon63167
Post 82

Obama does not care about the environment. Cap and Trade is nothing more than a scheme to steal and redirect our tax money.

Example: His cash for clunkers program was pitched as a way to green the planet by getting gas guzzlers off the road. But in fact, you got more incentives to trade to another vehicle in your same class and you had to have less fuel economy improvement to do so.

In other words, you could trade in a 14 mpg gas-guzzling pickup truck for a new 16 mpg gas-guzzling pickup truck and get the full $4500, while a guy driving a Toyota that got 25 mpg got nothing if he traded to a 35 mpg car.

Figure it out. C for C was a scheme to funnel your tax money into the pockets of the corrupt, lazy auto makers who squandered 10 years making gas-hogging SUVs instead of efficient cars.

Cap and Trade is the same thing -- a corrupt mechanism that Obama will use to reward wealthy, powerful, corporate cronies, just like all the bail-out money he slid into the pockets of the corrupt banks and investment companies that screwed this economy in the first place.

He ran on the "I'm not like G. W. Bush" mantra.

Change? You must be joking. Obama is everything bad about Bush times 10, wrapped in a phony liberal cloak.

anon62165
Post 81

Cap and Trade makes sense not just for the United States but for all countries. As a human race we have been give the privilege of inhabiting this great earth, we also have a responsibility to take care of it. What a unique concept! All the red hot hatred for anyone that even mentions clean environment, what is going on here?

Russ622
Post 80

Cap & Trade is dead, Obamacare boondoggle is on the morphine drip, and unless Obama has a few more Chicago tricks up his sleeve, Obamacare will die a quiet death with a healthy dose of liberal mourners crying beside its grave.

anon61350
Post 79

What global warming? Lake Superior is frozen over for the second time this decade but that will never make headlines because global warming is now a huge money making industry. Lake Superior for as long as records were kept, froze over only once every 20 years, twice this decade: 2003 and this year. Hmm!

anon57255
Post 78

The piece of junk health care bill will probably pass only after typical chicago politics come into play i.e. buying votes. Now Cap and Trade is in the wings and by the time this country wakes up it will be France.

anon55510
Post 76

In the end, and history will reflect the same: Al Gore started this "global warming" fiasco a few years back. He and his sheeple have been banging this drum since, louder with every fact that disproves his claims. He is in it for the money, as well as a handful of others.

Money talks. Scare people into doing your bidding, fine them or make them pay into it, rake up your billions and disappear into the night. Except he won't disappear. He's a glory/attention whore of the grandest variety.

Russ622
Post 75

Look at the last 11 months, liberals are trying to cram down our throats, every piece of liberal agenda they can get passed before the independent voters wake up and kick them out.

I only hope it happens before they ruin our economy beyond our ability to fix it. If the programs they have now get passed, it'll be too late.

anon55119
Post 74

Ok, I'll bite. First, the earth is coming ou of an ice age, and has been gradually warming since humans began keeping accurate climatic records (long before the industrial revolution).

Second, there is no empirical evidence that man has, in any way, accelerated this warming.

Third, we can all agree that pollution is bad. Cap and Trade though, is the equivalent of gun control. Outlaw guns, and the law-abiding will turn theirs in - the criminals won't.

We limit carbon emissions in the US, while China and the third world continue polluting. We can't compete economically, if we're not playing by the same rules.

I will stand behind cap and trade when the UN imposes and enforces a complete economic embargo on any nation who violates the agreement. Yeah, like that's gonna happen.

C&T is a nice idea, that in the real world, will never work. It's a fool's errand. Guess that's why the dems love it so much - they're fools. Lastly, Al Gore did not keep us safe for eight years. The Clinton / Gore administration laid the foundation for 9/11 by way of a complete disinterest in our counter-terrorism capability, and our military in general.

anon54059
Post 73

Let us not forget what we heard straight from the horse's mouth "Under my Cap and Trade plan, energy costs will necessarily skyrocket". And if you think this is just about businesses, think again. This is for every American.

Yes, Obama is on camera for all to see, saying this. So, for all you misguided dems who think the liberals are for the little guys, does this sound like something that will be good for the average American? Especially in this economy?

It's just another way for the government to be in control of our lives.

anon53669
Post 71

Who is John Galt?

anon52375
Post 70

I've read many good posts here. We are in serious danger of economic collapse, if TARP and the massive health care bill doesn't bring it on Cap and Trade will finish us off. We're headed for one world government and Obama and his crew of socialists are doing the bidding of a handful of international agents who have long awaited this. I also believe nothing happens without the Almighty allowing it for His own purposes. As a nation we have not appreciated our blessings, we are ungrateful and have ventured into evils that my grandmother's generation could not imagine. Christ will return and He will make all things right.

anon51393
Post 69

Try on a nation that is already applying these policies for size. Don't just spend a pretty little holiday. Live in the country earning the salaries, paying the taxes, trying to get an education, or better yet a job. If you have done this for a few years you realize why something free and different was necessary. We are going back to whence our ancestors escaped, whence immigrants continue to escape to eat the crumbs of our freedom we so carelessly take advantage of.

There are all sorts of variations on the socialization to check out, go be one with them. Let this nation be for the people, of the people. Let this nation remain true to her foundation, freedom from controls that have given you and everyone else what they have.

anon50198
Post 68

Isn't it funny how the government tells you to conserve fuel and energy while they launch the space shuttle (What notable recent breakthroughs or discoveries have we made on the space station?) and now a rocket (that NASA has said is not suitable to serve the purpose for which it was designed) that burn thousands of gallons of fuel in a matter of minutes. Isn't it funny how the government tells you you should drive a Prius while the president flies him and his wife on separate planes to Germany to beg for the Olympics. Amazing how they can waste energy and our money while telling us to cut back.

anon48229
Post 67

An experiment was done, many years ago, using a very large grove of trees (a small forest you might say). One half of the grove had pipes installed, running underneath the trees. These pipes had CO2 pumped through them. The other half of the grove was left untouched by the extra CO2. Researchers assumed that the growth of the "CO2" trees would be affected but never dreamed just how much. The "CO2 trees were about 20 percent taller and had about 40 percent more canopy volume than the non-"CO2" trees. The bottom line. The more CO2 you gave the trees, the faster and larger they grew. They handled it. I'm not going to sit here and say that people who speak negatively about CO2 emissions are idiots. They are not. They are people who are passionate about ours and our world's health. What I have not seen is the coming together, in a public venue, of scientists from both sides of the argument that have they're facts and the reliable data to back it up. Present it to the nations, let it be debated based on information that can be duplicated by other scientists, and let the public have access to this information. A televised presentation would be great. How about it scientists? If you can back it up then put it out there for debate.

anon48024
Post 66

Cap and Trade? What a joke. The American sheeple will fall for anything. Where do you fit in?

anon46678
Post 65

now with the cap and trade goes the working class of people making around 30,000.00 50,000.00 and less. they will have to pay for all the cost of cap and trade. So friends health care could not be paid for by the working class --no way. Cap and trade should be sent to the dump. you cannot put us in a bubble. the moon and sun looks the same now as they did when God made them.

anon46272
Post 64

For a dose of the truth, watch this: The Great Global Warming Swindle

anon45473
Post 63

Global temperatures have dropped for three yrs in a row. You call that global warming?

anon42469
Post 62

After this is passed, I just can't wait for my grandson to grow up and live in a world that is 1/2 degree cooler. He may not be able to afford to live, but he'll be cooler!

anon41823
Post 61

We are arguing over the contents in the 'middle of the paragraph'. The bottom line is: Do you believe that we are destroying the future environment of our planet, for our generations to come? Again and again, all I hear is about the *me* generation/I want what I want, now.

anon41645
Post 60

Oh this is socialism! Oh, the government is taking over! raise in arms kill everyone! revolution! our kid and grand kids will be paying for it! Oh, I'm a patriot and fight for freedom! Ridiculous!

You've been manipulated and brain washed already. There will always be a government. This is a country manipulated by huge diversified corporations that are basically disguised monopolies and big international bankers; they control the flow of money in this country and by doing that they control the law/legislature. They have many faces and many hats; it does not matter, republican or democrat or whatever. Stop fighting among yourselves. Democrats, Republican, Libertarians, Liberals and Socialist united as Americans. Stop hating and arguing - nobody is going to destroy you but yourself if you continue on this path.

There is nothing wrong with capitalism and wealth creation; it is needed and the markets know that. There is nothing wrong with providing the environment that will give incentives to empower the individual to be as rich as he can be as long that individual carries the moral, character and social responsibility that comes with the territory.

There is nothing wrong with socialism, since social justice is imperative to any decent, moral human being. As long as pseudo socialism does not cut your freedom to express your ideas, voice and sentiments and does not turn the government into a totalitarian government, nothing is wrong with it.

So, stop and unite if you want America to continue living!

I think you can start by reforming health care for now and even if it is run by your current government. If there was money for "unexplainable" or hard to understand war, there will be money to take care of the sick.

anon41390
Post 59

When are we going to realize that the more government is involved in our lives the worse off we'll be? We all cry, "Less government", but on the other hand we want the government to "take care of us." Cap and Trade is another way we relinquish more control to the government. I hope we wake up before it is too late.

Russ622
Post 58

Where did you come up with the term "government funds"? That is our money he is spending, along with our children's, our grand-children's, and great-grand-children's money, and he has only been in office six months.

anon40516
Post 57

Conservative like-mindedness seems to be showing up in anything President Obama and Congress tries to do. Equating an attempt to control pollution and climate change with "socialism" is highly illogical. We will have private industry in energy and healthcare as well as banking. Government is involved to regulate unfettered capitalism, which you would have to be totally ignorant to believe really works. We had a democratically held election in 2008 reflecting dissatisfaction with 8 years of conservative, Republican government starting unnecessary wars and allowing the economy to deteriorate. Our current cooperative foreign policy, our concern about energy and finding alternatives, and the using of government funds to do what the private sector cannot in order to reinvigorate our economy all are leading to better outcomes than if we did nothing.

anon40513
Post 56

the earth doesn't need saving. man has too many wants and never ending needs. look up at the full moon, does it look like it needs to be saved? not to me it doesn't but, i find the moon to be overrated anyhow.

anon40137
Post 55

The "pollutor" is you! listen to the language these marxists use. when they say only the rich will pay, that's you and me! In all of the world, the poorest among us are the richest among them. If you voted for Obama, you will be ashamed to admit it by the time his first term is over. but there will be a war that magically lands in his lap around 2012, because they know that statistically, a president is much less likely to be voted out in time of war. They play pollitics with our very lives. With our lives! Us! We The People! They work for us! So let's do all of us a favor and make sure that there is a massive turnover in Washington during these next three election cycles.

They will use the same tired line, "my opponent is a radical," or, "not experienced." well, look where all of this experience has got us?

Whoever is in office now that votes for tax & kill (cap & trade for the evironmentalists) or any who vote for universal healthcare reform, (lipstick on a pig) needs to be voted out, regardless of their opponent's views. The next batch could not possibly do a worse job. We

run this country! They work for us! Let's fire them all!

anon39727
Post 54

Hey guys, the government needs this tax so they can feed, house, and provide birth control for those 600 horses that nobody wants! 'Course the problem *could* be taken care of with about $200 in bullets. Hey then you could use the leftovers to feed all the dogs nobody wants, but all the bleeding-hearts say we should pay to house and feed! And to think these are the same people who think it is OK to kill your unborn child, because the government should *not* be able to tell you what to do with *your* body? What a joke. So $7 billion minus 200 is what? Whatever it is we could send it to China to pay off our debt. I wonder how many Chinese people have a place to live, food, lights, clothes, TV, etc. that the Chinese government pays for?

anon39557
Post 53

Cap and Trade is great for the economy. The "Government Authority" will set a "Cap" that industry will ignore then we the consumer will pay for the purchase of pollution. Two thumbs up foe "Socialism". You wanted "Change"? That's all you are going to be left with.

anon39048
Post 52

Why don't we all just stop breathing? Oh, and cut down all the trees while we are at it. That ought to help curb CO2 emissions.

anon37410
Post 51

The trees in the Great Smokey Mountains are suffering from a European born disease that was brought to our country. Get your facts straight and stop listening to the liberal bias media liars. This country is on the fast track to communism and they are using cap and trade to finish off our economy and our currency value. This is being done to create chaos among us so martial law can be declared therefore the Dems cannot be voted out of power and they may proceed to mold our once great nation into a socialist and elitest society. Mexican and Canadian military has already been authorized to enter and police us when anarchy strikes. Please look at the big picture folks. The new Amero dollar has already been designed and is awaiting distribution after the N. American Union has been formed in the very near future. All I can say is prepare yourselves and bury all the guns, ammunition and supplies that you can. Good luck to my fellow patriots and death to the marxist, communist sheeple. At least the weak lefties will be mostly incapable of defending themselves. Our biggest concern will be the military. "against all enemies foreign and domestic." Good luck.

anon37198
Post 50

Its interesting how we think our energy sources are are leading to our destruction. Here is a reality check. See that cord that is connected to your computer and the wall socket. Unplug it and see how much disinformation you can spew out over the internet.

Russ622
Post 49

The biggest cause for concern regarding polution, is Obama poluting our monetary system buy printing billions of unbacked dollars dumping them in to our monetary system. How long before this catches up with us?

anon37162
Post 48

Any Government controlled program will spell disaster. Cap and Trade will be a disaster. It will mean higher engery bills for all us. It is time to get the Government out of our lives.

anon36770
Post 46

Get ready for the domino effect. Cap & Trade is going to drive up the cost of energy production. The bill will be passed on to Joe Blow consumer. Inflation is skyrocketing under this administration and the general american consumer will continue to feed their normal lifestyle until it is too late and are over their head and on their last breath drowning in debt.

Russ622
Post 45

We pathetic conservatives already know what you liberals don't. Obama sold our bandwagon to the chinese

anon36558
Post 44

It's amazing how ignorant most of you are about the environment and the undeniable scientific proof behind global climate change theory. We aren't talking the same kind of theory that you would throw Jesus Christ and Buddha into, we are talking about a scientific hypothesis that has been supported by so much evidence that its existence is irrefutable by modern science. So you greedy business men and pathetic conservatives need to either A) educate yourselves or B) stop reproducing so the rest of us human beings can begin making headway on the massive amount of damage we have done to the world we live in. Cap and trade is a great start and I am proud to see that President Obama is getting the U.S. back on the bandwagon, but this is only the start. The EU's cap and trade system is preparing for its second phase while we are still developing our plan.

Russ622
Post 43

I wonder if this global warming is a natural process that will happen regardless of what the USA does. Some say if we do nothing, then it will happen faster. How much faster? How much worse? Who really cares when they are having a tough time making ends meet? The government certainly doesn't care about delaying the bankruptcy of our country. I wish they would show the same urgency in trying to balance our budget. We already are creating problems that our great-great grandkids will have to deal with. That is if *anyone* ever decides to deal with it.

anon36454
Post 42

Samuel Adams, one of the founding fathers of our nation, must have been a prophet.

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."

--Samuel Adams

anon36260
Post 41

This is absurd. Do you know methane gas is deadly also? The average person passes gas 8 to 10 times a day-3 million people here alone - what is that doing to the air? Are we to put charcoal in our drawers to absorb the gas? Levee a tax on all humans -if a big deal is made from cows emitting gas and belches-let it apply to all who pass gas-*everyone*

anon35735
Post 40

It just gets worse and worse every day, doesn't it? Meanwhile the unwashed bottom feeders concentrate on paying homage to a druggie. Oh great savior obama, please rescue us!!

anon35673
Post 39

The way the world is is far from where it should be.

anon35315
Post 38

We are standing at the edge of the abyss watching Congress grovel over whatever money they can steal before the printing press stops. At any given time, we are 30 minutes away from martial law and war in the street. Remember the OJ trial? You can't buy ammunition because people are hoarding it faster than it can be made. Obama is reaching out to those that want to kill us and the government is trying to control every aspect of our lives. Who cares about Cap & Trade, Health Care Reform, and a myriad of other legislation they don't read before they pass? Do you have any idea how you are going to feed, shelter, and protect your family when all hell breaks loose? Neither does Congress.

anon35226
Post 37

All of the posts are great comments. But what are we going to do about taking back our country?

anon35212
Post 36

Who has time for this, with the death of Michael Jackson. The American people have to much on their plate to be concerned with their future. I've seen some pretty ignorant people that are suppose to be public servants just screw this country like there is no tomorrow, and does the American public rise up? Our government leaders should all be in jail.

anon35167
Post 35

To anon35024:

There is zero proof that Global Warming is 1) caused by man, 2) a real problem, or 3) real.

If it was real, then the most compelling argument in support of this belief would NOT be: "The consensus among world scientists is that it is real, manmade, and a problem" - instead, the most compelling argument would be more along the lines of: "Look. Here is the proof. Open your eyes and do something about it."

"The consensus among world scientists is that it is real, manmade, and a problem" translates to "A lot of people believe it so you should as well."

Open your eyes. You're being lied to.

Russ622
Post 33

To anon35024 -- We can't afford it!!! If all the other countries were doing it, *and* we could afford it, then maybe, if it was proven to be an effective remedy that would actually help. Why spend all this money if it may not be a problem we can solve. By the time we can afford it, there may even be better solutions.

anon35024
Post 32

- rhouse1938: Yes it's a cycle, but the way we live on this planet is making it all happen much faster than it should.

- anon34864: It's called *global*. Not "my back yard change". Because of the *global* warming, there *is* extreme weather of all sorts that are happening. Sometimes, that means *cooler* than normal. Sometimes it means *wetter* than normal. Sometimes it means *more* tornadoes... *Think Globally*.

- anon34730: The Middle Ages called, they want their awareness of *science* back.

I'm all for this country to move out of the dark ages of fossil fuels, and aim for other resources.

All of our other technologies are *modern*. Why do we insist as a country to cling to these outdated ways?

rhouse1938
Post 31

OK, Global warming.........do you think it could be a cycle........seems like we've been there before!!

Yeah, Al Gore.....kept us safe for 8 years? What a crock. He and clinton did nothing but run down the military and did nothing about the looming housing crisis...along with Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.......what a bunch of looney tunes!!!

And now we have all the wonderful dems in office kissing the rear end of Obama while passing mountains of legislation they they did *not even read*!!!! People, we are in deep do do when congress passes bills that they haven't even read!! About 3 more years and you'll see a lot of Dems out of office. *I hope*!! How bout those winners......Carter, Clinton, Obama.....great leaders, ah?

anon34864
Post 30

I don't believe in global warming! I live in the northeast and still have not had any summer weather. I will burn more wood and waste oil if my utility bills goes up for this liberal insane legislation.

The left are out of control. "Be a good American! Don't try to think!" whatever.

Russ622
Post 29

Cap and Trade hasn't passed yet. It still has to go to the senate. I hope you will remember this observation: *no good law ever passes on a Friday, and no bad law ever passes on a Wednesday*.

anon34861
Post 28

What this country needs is another huge government program which costs billions to run with unprovable results. We can never destroy the earth. We can only ruin it for ourselves. If we do, something will survive, and eventually mother nature will heal itself, and start all over. However, if we destroy our economy by trying to fix everything, then we all will suffer sooner rather than later.

anon34855
Post 27

Since time immemorial and ever since the first *dollar* was exchanged, money has ruled and those in power make the rules. You know the tune---"Follow

the *money*."

anon34730
Post 26

First of all, God holds the earth in His hands and does with it whatever He will. The idea that man has the ability to destroy the earth or save the earth is futile. This world is passing away. And in fact, God has declared that He will destroy it with fire. I'd like to see Al Gore try to stop that!

quertyone
Post 25

why is it called cap and trade? people who listen to the news hear those words all the time--without a clue of what it actually means. sounds pretty stupid i guess but most people i know,(average americans i believe,)hear many answers but never really know what the question is.

anon34709
Post 24

What happens to companies that exceed their cap! They are "penalized"? What does that mean?

If the penalty is not a fine, than that is it? Harsh language? The executive staff is gunned down?

Further, doesn't this just create one more reason for *all* industries to spend untold millions each year for lobbyists to attempt to alter the rules in favor of their industry... or to penalize competing industries to gain unfair advantages? *Of course it does*.

Cap and trade is plainly one of the most insane ideas, a massive effort that will generate its own sizable carbon footprint... where all of the activities of administrating and endless inspections of every modestly sized business, year after year after year.

Countries that have had Cap and Trade for awhile are now preparing to drop it, and no country that has had Cap and Trade is giving it good reviews.

anon34707
Post 23

Don't make the immense error of calling C02 a pollutant! That is like saying that water is a pollutant! CO2 is one of the most, if not *the* most necessary, life giving gasses on the planet. *All* plant life needs it to survive. It is literally the stuff plants and trees are made from.

No scientist on the entire planet would tell you that CO2 is a pollutant.

baldeagle
Post 22

There are two issues, one) is there actually global warming and 2) if there is, is it caused by humans.

The second point is NOT PROVABLE. Let's look at the first. If there's global warming, we should be breaking high temperature records all over the globe. We are not. In fact, we are breaking cold records. Secondly, the greenhouse effect is supposed to hold in heat so that the temperature continues to trend higher. A simple test for this is what happens at night when the sun sets. Guess what, it's not warmer at night and the delta between day and night hasn't changed.

The enemies of what was the greatest nation that ever was are winning because we have become ignorant, confused sheep. Take back the power now or it's over for all of US.

anon34680
Post 21

oh...everyone shaddup and pay your taxes. we're all gonna work for the liberal elite anyways.

paratrom
Post 20

Didn't the Bush-Cheney Admin. roll back the pollution control laws so that industries could lower costs and pass their savings on to you and create more jobs? Did you see your energy costs and cost of living go down? Utility costs tripled, jobs were lost, and our standard of living nose dived. The filthy rich only want to get richer. If we don't see this bill passed, can we expect to enjoy this current prosperity of low energy costs? Wake up ditto heads and neocons. Quit supporting the slime that would keep you on your knees.

anon32531
Post 17

Ok, so now we don't have to *pay* for refuse or a water bill. We just can't take out our trash or flush our toilets.

Only difference is we don't see the effects of ozone depletion *as* quickly.

Look, of course there is a cost. Everything costs. You enjoy driving on the roads paid for by our taxes. Do you want everything for free? Our freedom isn't free. We *pay* for our governments and their officials, *which* provide us with laws that govern us and keep us safe and free.

anon32527
Post 16

C@p--$3000 TO $4000 more per year, per household.

anon32326
Post 15

So by that rationale, since everybody else is doing it, it's ok?

Money is more important than our planet's health? our kid's/grandkid's future?

I don't see how people are so tunnel-visioned. Business, business, business. I guess *that* is the one problem with capitalism.

anon32286
Post 14

A few questions:

Isn't CO2 roughly 1/3 of 1% of the atmosphere?

If China and India simply fill in the emissions that the US forfeits - what is the gain?

If we slow our economy by cap and trade such that we kill off economic growth and damage our economy further - what environmental consequences cascade from this eventuality?

Do we need another government program? Or at least name a government program (outside of those that the government monopolizes or only the government can do) that integrates well with commercial enterprise?

endlesswaste
Post 13

This is another way for the government to take money from *everyone* so it can grow bigger and bigger. You will *pay*!

anon31745
Post 12

Have the environmentalists ever been right about *anything*?

Let us remember: this whole movement started with Rachel Carson and "Silent Spring," which led to a near-universal ban on DDT.

*And millions of people died needlessly!*

Fifteen years ago, it was "the coming Ice Age." Nowadays, the US apparently thinks the globe is warming up *and* it's our fault, while the Russians think we are headed into another Ice Age. I believe the Japanese hold a third opinion.

So should we just jump right in with a *huge* government program, when we are not quite sure exactly what the problem is?

For sure, beware people who suspect that "something" is wrong, so the gummint must "do something." That's kind of like, "Ready, *fire!*, Aim."

wdscott
Post 11

My prayer this evening: Lord, grant me the incredible wisdom of all those people who are 100%

sure there is no such thing as global warming. I

pray they are right - 'cause if they are wrong, the *whole planet* pays with it's life. And as I fall asleep I will wonder if it's the concept of global warming they hate so much or is it Al Gore...remember, *he* kept us 'safe' the entire 8 years he was in office and didn't have to torture anyone to do it. *That* ought to get the right wingnuts going. Bring it on!

anon30725
Post 10

response to Wdscott:

Well scott if you think the polluters will pay you're wrong. They will just pass the added expense to you when you buy their product or pay for their service. So the costs will be on your shoulders. You don't get it like the rest of the cap and trade supporters. As always the consumer (you) will pay and pay dearly.

anon29962
Post 9

Global warming is a farce?? Now that's funny.

The world is flat too.

anon29905
Post 8

response to wdscott:

How *bad* global warming is cannot be known for sure, and there's no way to know *for sure* until it's too late. All one has to do is see the devastating effects of the environment on the trees in the Great Smoky mountains to know that *something* is wrong.

We need to collectively learn as a nation that there *are* things more important than money.

Listen, who is going to stop China from emitting the filth that it spits out every day? China is polluting on a scale not seen since the industrial revolution. Look at the big picture. The cost burden of cap and trade will be passed on to the consumer, not the so called polluter. It's just one more thing to cripple the economy. All this nonsense helps China get stronger while we get weaker.

Our steel making industry has been brought to it's knees while China just built two new super mills which employ thousands. American corporations move to foreign countries because they aren't taxed out of existence and harassed by an environmental protection agency.

With all of this going on, all you can think about is that there might be global warming. It's a shame that you only listen to the few scientists that use junk science to make a case for global warming but you don't listen to the other side. Global warming is a farce and cap and trade is just another nail in America's coffin.

anon29385
Post 7

For those of you who forgot basic facts, Trees *use and need co2*, Carbon Dioxide, to survive. Green plants *use* this CO2 to produce *oxygen*, which we people *need and use*, Oxygen keeps us alive. If you are trying to reduce CO2, you are reducing what trees *need* to produce *oxygen,* and *trees will die* if you eliminate CO2, and then we will die, without the oxygen trees produce. Seems some forgot the basics, trying to reduce CO2 will reduce oxygen, and will reduce *you.* dan

anon28469
Post 6

Fact: Carbon dioxide is not "pollution".

Fact: Government always aggrandizes power to itself, and this is just one more example of it.

anon28308
Post 5

The companies that are penalized by "cap and trade" will either pass the additional cost on to us the consumer or move to a country where they can do whatever they like. Either way the American people lose-lose.

wdscott
Post 4

To view this as a farce one must be 100% sure there is no such thing as global warming. I believe there is such a thing - therefore I am for Cap and Trade because it places the cost of excessive pollution on the shoulders of the polluters.

How *bad* global warming is cannot be known for sure, and there's no way to know *for sure* until it's too late. All one has to do is see the devastating effects of the environment on the trees in the Great Smoky mountains to know that *something* is wrong.

We need to collectively learn as a nation that there *are* things more important than money.

anon28225
Post 3

In the carbon credit system a farmer does what he normally does, a factory does what it normally does. The only thing that changes is that the government forces the factory to buy carbon credits and gives the money to the farmer. Once again it's just the government stealing money from one group of people and giving it to another. Nothing else changes. *Wake up America*!

anon21404
Post 1

Cap and trade is a farce.

By allowing the purchase of credits, the message is "pollute as much as you like, just pay for it, and you're off guilt-free."

The most glaring and obvious example? None other than the Global Warming Svengali, Al Gore. While lecturing the rest of us about curtailing our carbon emissions, he merrily consumes 20 times as much energy as normal folks, but buys "credits" to "ensure carbon-neutrality."

What a load of carbon-emitting crap.

This is nothing more than a get-rich-quick scheme for those who become "brokers" of these meaningless credits. Americans have become so dumbed-down that we just accept whatever the anointed spew, and we do it at our own peril.

Obama admitted that the Cap and Trade he espouses will bankrupt the Coal industry. All that will do is make YOUR electric bill skyrocket as your provider is forced to use inefficient, horribly expensive ways to produce energy. Get ready, this is gonna hurt.

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