I find it ridiculous that there is even such an argument found here on this site. There should be no argument. You are ready for marriage when you know you are, and believe me, if it is right, you will know.

If you think you are too immature, don't get married. If you don't know who you are (which I don't know how you don't know this, but who am I to judge) then don't get married. Leave marriage for those of us who can handle the hurdles and idiots who are hurled at us on this journey.

Divorce rates are probably so high now because instead of influencing young couples to work through their issues, you simply say the issue was the age at which you were married, and use this as a get out of jail free card. It is a disgrace to see so many people soil the idea and sanctity of marriage. There is no room for you to shove your ideals down anybody's throat.

I married at 18 and my biggest problem was not with my marriage, but dealing with the people who assumed my life was a mistake because of this. I assure you, it was no mistake, we are still happy. Do I think marriage at 18 is for everyone? No. Obviously most people are not ideal for this. But there are those of us who can and will manage to have a blissful life together so don't assume because we are young that we are stupid. That in itself is ignorant.

What is marriage? Marriage is nothing but selfish satisfaction if not done for purposes of religion. Everything wrong in the world today is because people have made themselves or humans the ultimate authority, so to carry that out to the logical end, what is more important than nihilistic hedonism? A good atheist is a foolish atheist.

"People are choosing to get married older as a result of a new awareness. That awareness is a combination of observing that our parents' generation was not as peaceful or fulfilled as the illusion indicated. Instead we (age 25-45) are taking the time to develop self-awareness and self-love."

As I've pointed out already, while getting older often (though not nearly often enough) equates to greater self-awareness and maturation, that's not the key to a successful marriage. On the contrary, the more one is concerned about self-fulfillment and self-love, the less likely one is going to be able to sustain a successful marriage, since marriage is largely about selfless devotion to one's spouse.

"However, the assumption that more people getting divorced means worse relationships is, I believe, incorrect. Is that actually higher *percentages*, rather than simply figures rising with the population? And if it is percentages increasing, that could just be indicating that people are more likely to break up a marriage than stay together simply because society didn't accept divorces as freely as they do now."

Yes, it's a greater percentage, not merely larger numbers; we hear of the divorce "rate" for that reason. And you actually make my own point.

Yes, society does accept divorces much more freely now, but that's because divorce became more prevalent. The question is why it became more prevalent.

I argue it's for the very reason Corey refers to above: an increased, almost obsessive interest in self-fulfillment and empowerment. Since the 1970's society has been bombarded with the message that, in essence, it's all about us, that the individual is king. There are some positive aspects to that, but by emphasizing our own personal emotions and situations to such a degree, it does make it more difficult to adjust to the idea that someone else's emotions and situation are at least as important as our own. When it comes to marriage, that's about as fundamental as it gets.

When marriage becomes merely something to "try out," to see if it suits us, and if it doesn't fulfill us the way we thought it would, well, yeah: Chances are more are going to happen.

And that's been my whole point. Our society, far more than in the past, has forgotten what marriage actually represents, and how to be married. What makes a marriage work is selfless love for your spouse and a desire to experience life with that person and no one else, for the rest of your life.

Ultimately that's all it takes, regardless of age, education, or self-empowerment. The truest sense of fulfillment will come *from* experiencing that kind of marriage. And you can't experience it without staying married. Five-year-old wine won't taste nearly as good as fifty-year-old wine. Like wine, marriage has to age for you to experience its fullest pleasures.

Well, I believe that if two people really love each other and are willing to take the next big step then they're wise.

Many adults just live with each other and then become common-law married, which honestly isn't right if they aren't really married -- you know? Marriage is a perfect thing (at times), but people put pressure on newlyweds, saying things like "they're not right for you" or "you two are so different, you won't last" and it gets into the person's head and makes them think 'hey, maybe they're right.'

When someone falls in love, it's love. when someone loves another to no end, people have no right to doubt them. Well, that's my opinion anyway. :/

People are choosing to get married older as a result of a new awareness. That awareness is a combination of observing that our parents' generation was not as peaceful or fulfilled as the illusion indicated. Instead we (age 25-45) are taking the time to develop self-awareness and self-love. This is positive and over time will result in relationships based in truth and lovingness, regardless if we call them marriages or not.

"Couples are getting married much later -- average age of 27 instead of 20, compared to fifty years ago -- which one would think would argue better for marriage than worse. Older means more mature and responsible, right? But apparently not, because these older couples are getting divorced at far higher rates than their young predecessors." Quote from ubelzwilling. However, the assumption that more people getting divorced means worse relationships is, I believe, incorrect. Is that actually higher *percentages*, rather than simply figures rising with the population? And if it is percentages increasing, that could just be indicating that people are more likely to break up a marriage than stay together simply because society didn't accept divorces as freely as they do now.

After reading all of these comments, I have to say that ubel zwilling is the only one really making much sense. There's no magic age to be ready for marriage. Perfect example, marriages to med-students are much more successful if they're before or during the first couple years of med school. I'm planning on going to med school, so I looked into it for both my own sake as well as that of my fiance.

As for increased divorce rates, that has nothing to do with people getting married before they're ready or forcing it. That's simply the fact that to the world now, marriage is viewed as a sort of business deal that's kept intact as long as it's benefiting both parties and can be broken when things go sour. Marriage is something people have to fight for at times, and instead now people just give up and look for another one. It's a matter of convenience now instead of a lifelong contract.

Also, the idea of "knowing yourself" is absurd. There's no way to determine a specific age for that. Depending on the events that unfold in each individual's life, maturity is different. I've met teenagers with a better grip on reality then people in their 30's.

One thing I laugh at is the ridiculous statement that people today are more well rounded. The most recent generations are the most naive of any. Most of my peers leave me stunned. Our generation has become so ignorant. I've lived across the U.S. and it's not even a regional dilemma, it seems to be a universal issue.

Lastly, I was thinking about the statement that "the times have changed." The times may change. However, it's up to the individual whether or not to follow the course or make their own decisions.

If the two individuals are capable of supporting themselves and find themselves in love and thinking about themselves in terms of a couple 5, 10, 50 years from now then why does age matter? My husband was 24 and I was 22 and even though we were young we are the happiest couple I've ever run across.

I've read all the opinions and comments here and I have to say I agree 100% with ubelzwilling. Knowing yourself is not a valid indicator of whether or not you're capable of a successful marriage. In a successful marriage "knowing yourself" is not enough. Age does not determine if you are ready for marriage. Growing together and certainty of knowing that this is the "one" that you want to spend the rest of your life with, through good and bad times, no matter how hard life becomes, you would have the love and strength to face the hardship together plays a huge part. I totally agree with ubelzwilling. everything you've said is logical and I truly believe that.

Mark Regnerus is an associate professor of sociology at the University of Texas at Austin and is the author of "Forbidden Fruit: Sex and Religion in the Lives of American Teenagers."

Is it more normal for a man to be ten years older than the woman he marries or for the woman to be ten years older than the man?

My, what big hyperbole you have, Grandma.

Julia, my reading comprehension is fine. I'm beginning to question yours, though, since you've missed the point entirely now twice. I never said those anonymous posters were attacking the institution of marriage. Not once. Scroll down and see for yourself. What I did say is that their idea that anyone under 25 can't be self-aware or mature enough to get married is ridiculous, and is itself an example of one of the reasons so many marriages end in divorce today. There is a difference, whether you choose to accept that or not.

Their argument, and apparently yours since you're defending them, depends on two things:

1) that "knowing yourself" is a prerequisite to a long marriage; and

2) that you can't "know yourself" well enough before age 25-ish.

Well, we all know #1 is wrong on its face, because we all know there are countless examples of people getting married young, even very young, and staying married. Clearly they didn't know themselves as well at 18 or 20 as they did at 25, did they? And yet they still managed to stay married. How can this be?

Because people spend their whole lives getting to "know themselves." It's not as if there's some magic age where everything becomes clear to us. Life is always teaching us lessons. The point of being married is to learn those lessons *together,* because you want to, with someone that you love enough--and loves you enough--to want to be with while learning those lessons. It's not so much about "knowing yourself" as knowing you want to be with that other person, regardless of what life brings you. This is why I said, and still very much say, that anyone who argues that you can't get married before you "know yourself" simply doesn't understand what marriage is supposed to be.

As to #2--that you can't "know yourself" before age 25--of course you're not going to know as much about yourself at age 18 as you will at 25--or at 35, 55, or 75. Again, no one knows himself as well as he will ten years, five years, even just one year later, which is why if you had to know *everything* about yourself to have a successful marriage, no one ever would. But people do, because we are always learning, before marriage and during it. In fact you *won't* know everything about yourself *until* you get married, and *until* you face the inevitable struggles in it. Part of getting married is *knowing* that you don't know all there is to know about yourself, but that you're going to learn.

The only thing you really have to know about yourself to have a successful marriage is that you want to spend the rest of your life with your intended. If you can't imagine your life without her, then you know that there's no problem that you won't want to solve together, and no journey that you don't want to take with her. You think your grandparents were "settled in life" when they got married as teenagers? I bet I know what they'd say. My parents certainly weren't "settled in life" when they got married at 20. The idea is that you want *to be together* through it all, whether you're "settled" or not, to experience the "settling," the figuring-it-out-of-it-all, with your spouse. The goal is the couple, the other--not the self. And knowing that isn't dependent on any particular age. You can know it at 18, and not know it at 80.

It's not about the age, and it's not about "the times." It's about the lessons you're taught as you grow up, and what examples you've had in your life. In that sense, yes, the times can make it harder to learn those lessons -- our current society is addicted to the self, and our divorce rates show it -- but there are still people getting married young and making it. They do because despite all the negative pressures, they were taught -- and shown -- how to be responsible, mature, loving people, whatever the culture may be, and the lessons stuck. Those are lessons you can absolutely learn by 17. Our parents' and grandparents' generation showed that. It used to be expected. It's now the lack of that expectation that has our youth staying stunted in terms of maturity until later in life and choosing to get married for the wrong reasons and for the wrong impressions.

So once again, the institution of marriage is just fine, and it's not excessive youth, or changed times, that's got the divorce rate up. It's the low expectations of, and poor lessons being taught our youth by their supposed role models. "The times" are us. What we choose to value, and thus teach our children, is what makes "the times."

Simple answer: I know I won't get divorced because I know my wife feels the same way about us, and about marriage, as I do. (I find it curious you assumed I was a woman.)

As for knowing more about life, I don't know that I do. What I do know is what I can see with my own eyes, and know others can see if they'll bother to look. Trouble is, many won't, and yes, that's definitely unpleasant, which might explain your finding my attitude unpleasant. It's an unpleasant topic that such a discussion prompts, or at least should. As for my supposed arrogance, I question your definition of it; too often these days it's simply something to call someone who dares to make a convicted judgment about something. "Must...not...judge." But if that's what being forthright about the death of the grown-up in our society means, I'll bear that burden.

I mostly agree with ubelzwilling. I started dating my fiance at 19 when I was a freshman in college. I am 22 now, and we are getting married in 42 days.

Honestly, most people in my generation are simply lazy, self absorbed, and just want satisfaction. It is scary to me to think how quickly the majority of people seem to be losing their values. I agree that there is no 'correct time' to get married, but I also think it is crazy to say someone is not mature enough. Judging by the comments of some of the people on this blog, I would have to say they are the immature ones.

ubelzwilling,

Wow! You are sadly mistaken in everything that you are saying. I believe that you were so quick to attack the two who posted before you that you did not realize that they too are defending the institution of marriage. They were 100% right. And for your information, I am very close to my elders and I *do* consult them for advice in various aspects in life. I have to agree with you on one thing, and that's that marriage has been devalued by people "mucking it up."

As an example, my grandmother got married at 17 years of age and stayed married until my grandfather passed away. Can one successfully get married at age 17 today? No! In these days, you are still a child at 17. The one who posted before you stated that times have changed, and in this way he/she is right. In the old times, one must only have a high school diploma, and now life demands more, thus people are taking longer to get settled in life.

How do you know that you will never get divorced?? Your husband may leave *you*.

To the anons,

I'm just turned forty years old, a founding member of Generation X, and the idea that life demands more than it used to is laughable fantasy. It suggests you have little to no idea of what your parents' -- or grandparents'; I don't know how old you are -- generation actually experienced. If anyone's disconnected here, it's you and your conception of the past. The last couple of generations, especially the latest one, are the most coddled generations in human history. Never before have generations of humans been able to enjoy so much with so little effort, and expend so much time thinking about what they should get out of life.

The result of that is a whole class of couples whose focus in marriage is what it can do for him and her, as individuals, not as a couple. They're not used to compromise and not used to being challenged. The advantage they have over past generations is that they don't have to devote nearly as much of their lives to physical hardship and the stresses of mere survival. The downside of that is the lack of perspective they have in terms of what hardship actually is, and the camaraderie such hardships can form in a couple.

You say current generations are better educated. That's largely true in terms of social tolerance, and perhaps slightly true academically (though that's eminently debatable), but it's most certainly not true in terms of having well-rounded perspective on life in general. Our current society is painfully naive when it comes to personal and social responsibility, and marriage statistics illustrate just how much. Couples are getting married much later -- average age of 27 instead of 20, compared to fifty years ago -- which one would think would argue better for marriage than worse. Older means more mature and responsible, right? But apparently not, because these older couples are getting divorced at far higher rates than their young predecessors.

So it's not about the age, or the time period, it's about the mindset. Marriage hasn't gotten any harder. It's the people who are getting married these days who are making it harder, because they just don't get it. People who get married too young aren't more likely to divorce because life demands more than it used to, but because *they* do.

And in that sense, you're right: I am disconnected from current society, because I don't. I married for life, come what may.

ubelzwilling,

I feel as though you are very disconnected with the current society and I am sorry to hear that. In this generation, people are more well-rounded and do not take the same kinds of abuse from spouses as previous generations. We are also better educated. And you say that times haven't changed, but people's views have... so yes, people have changed along with the times. Please think about what you are saying. People who get married too young are more likely to divorce because life demands more than it used to.

ubelzwilling, who are you?? You are sadly mistaken and those two other posts are right and you are wrong. Most people do not know who they are at that age. Are you married or divorced? How old are you?

ubelzwilling,

Please do not attack someone's maturity level because of your opinions; that is immature. I still believe in marriage, but *most* people are screwing it up just because they believe that people must get married, so they get married for the wrong reasons then get divorced. Please, next time think before you jump down someone's throat. Besides times have changed because people have changed. Now it takes much longer for people to grow up. Thank you and try to be smart!

These last two posts are perfect exemplars of the child-like mentality extending into adulthood. The idea that someone can't "know himself" at age 25 is ridiculous, and up to only the most recent generations would have been scoffed at. Coming to maturity by 18-21 was a foregone conclusion; our social rituals and institutions expected it and fostered it. And it largely happened, at least where marriage was concerned, as evidenced by the differences in divorce rates. "Times" haven't changes; only people's attitudes have. The only thing that's keeping people from getting married young and staying together just as long as their parents' generations did is a culturally accepted and *encouraged* self-absorption, combined with a superficial and immature view of marriage itself. The institution of marriage is just fine. It's the people who're choosing to do it that are more frequently mucking it up.

I agree with the last poster. Marriage is a *huge* deal and so many people take it lightly, hence the growing rate of divorce. Besides, you do not know who you are at 21, 22, 23 years of age.

I know from personal experience; I was with my ex for several years, and thank God, didn't marry him-- or else I would now be 22 and divorced. My parents were 21 and 25 when they got married as well and they are still very happily married. However, times have changed and things don't work that way anymore.

I think its ludicrous that someone would say that you need to be married at 25! You need to know who you are first.

Getting married and having a child is a huge deal. I hardly think it is something that people should do by the age of 25. The first poster makes the assumption that she's just guaranteed to never have to go through a divorce. The younger people are when they get married, the more likely they are to go through a divorce. This phenomena shapes the social demographic in such a way as to be very negative for the society in general. Not everyone meets the person that they're supposed to spend the rest of their life with between the ages of 22-25, so don't make snap judgments and broad based claims about what you think people should do just based on you and your family's history early marriage track record.

This article seems to stress that a higher average age at first marriage is an exclusively positive thing. I'm sure this is true for some people, but it is certainly not true for all people.

Everyone in my family (my parents, aunts and uncles, cousins, etc) has gone to college, and most of my family has at least a master's degree. The oldest anyone has gotten married in my family is 24. My sister is getting married this summer at 23 and I will be getting married next summer at 22. My parents were married at 22, as well. I'm hoping to go to graduate school for a PhD, and my fiance will graduate with multiple bachelor's degrees from the University of Notre Dame.

I suppose my point is simply that education does not necessarily equal a higher marriage age, and that a higher marriage age is not necessarily a good thing. I believe in starting your married life early, growing up together, and having children before you are 37, 38, 39... like so many women today do. I strongly believe that all women ought to marry and have a child before the age of 25.

I wonder what the statistics would be for gay marriage - that is if it were legal in all states. I feel like the age would be a LOT higher, but that's only my intuition.

I am skeptical that the only cause for the trends noted in this article is "increased industrialization." Are the effects of increased educational and employment opportunities not worth mentioning?

the most recent data from the u.s. census bureau, indicates an average age of 27.5 for men and 25.6 for women for their first marriage. this is data for the year 2007.

Actually, in Sweden, the average age for men to marry is 32, while the average age for women is 30.

we are so lucky to live in countries where we are not forced into marriage at a young age. we can only pray that other counties and cultures will follow suit and allow women to choose for themselves when the right time is for marriage. i don't think getting married young is bad, but when it interferes with making good life choices, i.e., college, etc., then you need to consider it carefully. my heart just aches for those women in other countries who are subjugated by men, considered only as property.